One More Whatever…
So…it appears the editorial powers that be (Joe Quesada) have finally found the way to get Spidey single without killing Mary Jane or divorcing them. Afterall, Spidey divorced is even harder for readers to relate to than the wacky marriage thing is. Which makes sense. I mean, what modern teen can relate to marriage or divorce? Not one that I know of. I mean, what other crazy situation could they through at Peter to make him ever harder to relate to? Parenthood? Modern teens and comic book readers (who are much older than modern teens) can’t relate to marriage and kids. What experience do they have with it? Well, other than growing up in a family of some sort.
What’s terrific is that they are using that bane of teenage life-the “deal with the devil to erase a part of your life”. What modern teen is unable to relate to that. How do you think that guy got to be captain of the football team? Effort and training? Heck no, he made a deal with that evil jerk the devil. Probably so he could give us comic geeks wedgies.
And let us not forget about the editorial allegiance to the writers here. I mean, I know Joe is just thinking of them. He doesn’t want editorial to have to continue to shoot down Ed Brubaker or Peter David (or, uh, someone actually writing Spider-Man right now, like J. Michael Strazynski) when they bring that “Peter Parker looks at Porn online” story they are dying to write-but can’t. Why? Poor Peter is shackled to a wife, killing any possibility of fun. Stupid girls.
So, while some of you babies sit back and lament this silly notion that Marvel is anti-marriage, I lie back and bask in the truth…Marvel is just making Spidey an normal guy the modern teens can relate to. You know…a super-smart scientist with superpowers who is single and has trouble with the ladies. That sure describes my teen years in a nutshell.
Posted in: Comic Books, Satire
In One Ear... 
Thom, I’m certainly no proponent of the Spider-Man “marriage roll-back” in concept, and I like the execution of it even less. But I believe you’re missing the mark in terms of Spider-Man and his appeal to younger readers. I believe an unmarried Spider-Man probably IS more identifiable to teenagers.
Spider-Man’s powers, and his need to keep a secret identity, are a metaphor for the alienation most teenagers feel as they struggle to maintain a “cool” public persona while coping with the reality of their feelings on the inside. His powers in no way preclude him from being someone teens can relate with.
Actually, Bill, as has been pointed out elsewhere on the Blogosphere regarding this very topic, there are already Marvel titles where Spider-Man is a single teenager/college student – ULTIMATE SPIDER-MAN, SPIDER-MAN ADVENTURES (skews younger) and SPIDER-MAN LOVES MARY JANE. AMAZING SPIDER-MAN and SPECTACULAR SPIDER-MAN are following, supposedly, the continuity of Peter’s life…if you can accept that he was a teenager in 1963, finally graduated college in the Nineties (I think) and hasn’t even had his thirtieth birthday yet in 2007.
On a more practical real-world level, Spider-Man, or any other comic, isn’t really read by teenagers anymore b/c they can’t afford them. They’re mainly read by single men in their Twenties and Thirties – which is probably why Quesada thought they’d want a single Spider-Man as much as HE wants one! But from the fan reaction, apparently most prefer a married Spidey to a single one – and more importantly, would really truly like to see some stories that, you know, make sense in continuity rather than Big! Events! That! Change! Everything! Forever! and have as much validity as a pro wrestling title change….
Best,
Tim Liebe
Dreaded Spouse-Creature of Tamora Pierce – and a Merry Christmas from Satan, the Dark Lord! >:)
You hit it on the head tho.
These stories aren’t being written for teens or kids nemore as an escape fantasy, they’re being made for the middle aged comic fan going thru a midlife crisis whose “escape fantasy” is to get out of their marriage painlessly and be able to “play the field” again 
Tim: I was simply responding to Thom’s musings about whether or not an unmarried Spidey is really any more identifiable to youngsters, given that his powers are already out of the realm of realism. My point was, and is, that Spidey’s powers can in fact be seen as a metaphor for the teenage experience, and an umarried Spidey would probably be more identifiable to teenage boys. I did not predict a spike in sales for any of the main Marvel U Spidey books, and I am already aware of the other versions of Spidey floating around, having read some of them myself.
Still, I’m not sure your thesis about why teenagers don’t read comics really holds water. I mean, kids these days walk around with expensive cell phones, iPods, and other high-tech gear. If they wanted to read comics, I suspect many kids could find the money. I suspect it has more to do with the fact that many kids have gotten out of the reading habit, instead spending their discretionary time playing video games and surfing the Web. It probably doesn’t help that any of the Spidey comics aside from “Marvel Adventures” are so steeped in continuity (at this point even the Ultimate line is beginning to get bogged down) that it’s hard for the uninitiated to jump on. Stories that “make sense” in continuity often don’t make sense to those trying to jump on board.
By the way, I can easily accept that Peter Parker has only aged a few years in a few decades worth of stories. Peter Parker is a fictional character in an ongoing episodic series, and if I can suspend my disbelief enough to accept a man who can shoot webs from his wrists and climb walls unaided, I can get around the whole “Marvel time vs. real time” thing.
Ami, I’d be careful about drawing conclusions about the motivations of Joe Quesada, J. Michael Straczynski, and the writers who will follow once “One More Day” concludes. You’d be surprised how easy it is to be wrong about those things. I was a “public figure” of a sorts at one time, having worked as an announcer, newscaster, and reporter for a local NPR affiliate. It was amazing how quickly people drew conclusions about me based on hearing my voice for a few minutes each day, and how astonished those who met me were when they realized that I was nothing like the mental constructs of me they had created.
It’s best to simply focus on the creative output itself. You can judge that on its own merits, because everything you need to see is right there on the page.
My opinion just comes from what Joe Q’s been saying about this.
Ami, I’ve read some… interesting… quotes from Joe Q about the issue of Peter Parker’s marriage, but nowhere have I read anything that indicated he wanted to cater to middle-aged male comics readers who want to live out the fantasy of dumping their spouse without consequence. Moreover, I question just how many male comics readers match that profile. All of my comic-book reading friends are happily married and intend to stay that way. The ones I know who are single aren’t that way because they’re playing the field, they’re single because they’re awkward around women.
(As an aside, I was a late bloomer with respect to relations with the opposite sex, so I’m not attempting to rub salt in the wounds of anyone whose virginity is not by choice. Been there, and I empathize.)
Here is a Newsarama article wherein Joe Quesada explains his rationale for wanting to have Spidey “un-married.” Basically, he wants to go back to the formula of a youthful, down-on-his-luck Spidey. That’s the version of Spider-Man that existed when ASM’s sales were at their peak, and there are those who believe, rightly or wrongly, that the key to getting sales back to a semblance of what they once were is to bring Spidey back to what he once was. Is that a good idea? I don’t know. I tend to doubt that Peter’s status as a married man has been the only barrier toward increasing sales. But I can’t see anything in Quesada’s rationale that implies, “Hey, let’s cater to middle-aged male play-the-field fantasies.”
If they bring Peter Parker back to his youthful hard-luck roots, by the way, I’m not sure that will fulfill anyone’s fantasies. Mr. P’s hard luck always extended to his love life.
I’m curious, Ami: what is it that Joe Q said that leads you to believe that he’s trying to cater to men who wish they could dump their wives without consequence?
Addendum: It should be noted that I’m not trying to defend “One More Day.” As I said, I’m not fond of the concept nor its execution.
Bill – re: the discretionary income…maybe, but with the caveat of cost/benefit analysis (which kids today are MUCH better at doing than I was at their age!). An iPod may cost anywhere from $79 – $399 (and used to cost more), and iTunes tracks may be $0.99/per – but you listen to them over and over and get repeated pleasure from them. A comic? At $2.99, you read it for 15 minutes – and it’s done, unless they’re serious collectors.
Regarding your “kids don’t read anymore” comment – as the husband of a bestselling Young Adult fantasy author, who’s seen a different Young Adult fantasy author’s series become a multibillion dollar global phenomenon, I beg to differ. Lots of kids are reading, and buying, books with their discretionary income – the difference being that a paperback Young Adult novel costs roughly double what a comic issue does ($6.99 on up), but gives hours of pleasure on first reading for the consumer, and hours more when it’s re-read and re-read until it falls apart (which comics rarely are).
Even if you meant “kids aren’t reading comics anymore,” that’s still not right – b/c kids are paying up to three times the amount of a comic on average for a volume of manga. The difference is that a volume of manga gives you twice-three times the number of pages a comparable number of comics issues do (between 170 – 200 pages for manga, versus about 70 pages for three comics issues) – oh, and since manga’s audience isn’t limited to Single Males 16 – 34, there’s a broader variety of topics and a better chance that a teenage girl, say, can find an identifying character that isn’t treated strictly as a sex object or a prize to be won…or lost, in the case of ONE MORE DAY.
Best,
Tim Liebe
Dreaded Spouse-Creature of Tamora Pierce – and co-writer of Marvel’s WHITE TIGER comic (trade paperback available in bookstores now! 🙂 )
Tim Liebe: “Regarding your “kids don’t read anymore” comment – as the husband of a bestselling Young Adult fantasy author, who’s seen a different Young Adult fantasy author’s series become a multibillion dollar global phenomenon, I beg to differ.”
Despite the existence of bestselling young adult fantasy books, statistics show that reading is on the decline among teenagers and adults. According to a recently released report authored by the National Endowment of the Arts, people aged 15 – 24 spend an average of 7 minutes per day reading on weekdays, and 10 minutes per day on weekends and holidays. Less than one-third of 13-year-olds are daily readers. I could go on and on, but would instead suggest reading the report.
Tim Liebe: “…there’s a broader variety of topics and a better chance that a teenage girl, say, can find an identifying character that isn’t treated strictly as a sex object or a prize to be won…or lost, in the case of ONE MORE DAY.”
****SPOILER WARNING****
While I would agree that super-hero comics in general could do a better job of portraying women, “One More Day” is not a good example. In no way is Mary Jane portrayed as a “prize to be won or lost.” It’s not about losing a “piece of ass,” but is instead a classic Spidey conundrum: to do the right thing, he must sacrifice the ability to be happy. His Aunt May is at death’s door because she was hit by a bullet meant for Spider-Man, and the assassination attempt was made possible because he made a decision to unmask. Now he must face a choice between allowing his Aunt to die because of something he did, or allowing his life to be “rolled back” so he will lose all of the personal growth and joy he has experienced as Mary Jane’s husband.
So there is no confusion: I’m not fond of the story. It’s contrived and convoluted. But it’s not a “woman-as-prize” story.
One More Day did what the Clone Saga could not. It made me not care about Spidey. Joe Q has said in interviews and on podcast he wanted the marriage over. He wants a Spidey that can date many women. He has this idea and it matters not what the readers think. In fact the Ultimate line was to be this free wheelin’ Spidey, but they made him too young. I thought that Jemas was the problem, but at least his insanity was logical. Sorry, I hate this turn of events and now buy only one Marvel title, Nova. I count the days until they screw it up.
By the way…he wants Spidey to be a free wheeling bachelor. Seriously…does the average comic geek that cannot relate to a married Spidey relate to one who has an active dating life? Most comic fans I knew growing up might have a date here and there…but they were not getting dates left and right. And frankly, they were dating pretty regular girls. Peter Parker has dated nothing but flawless beauties. But the had a couple girlfriends and did not really play the field. To look at Parker’s love life pre-marriage is like seeing the high school nerd dating the entire cheerleading squad in his school. Unlikely.
By the way…he wants Spidey to be a free wheeling bachelor. Seriously…does the average comic geek that cannot relate to a married Spidey relate to one who has an active dating life? Most comic fans I knew growing up might have a date here and there…but they were not getting dates left and right. And frankly, they were dating pretty regular girls. Peter Parker has dated nothing but flawless beauties. But the had a couple girlfriends and did not really play the field. To look at Parker’s love life pre-marriage is like seeing the high school nerd dating the entire cheerleading squad in his school. Unlikely.
Where has Joe Q said he wanted Spider-Man to be a “freewheeling bachelor?” I’m not challenging you on that, by the way. Quite the opposite. I believe you and I’d be interested in reading more about it.
Ironically, while I’ve spent a good deal of time debating you all about this or that, we agree on one thing… this ain’t a good move. The “Unmasked” story may have been problematic, but it got me reading Spidey again. “One More Day” has turned me right off.
Thom, sorry to go off topic, but: I was wrong about Lewis Black. Yesterday and today I heard some clips of his stand-up that I hadn’t heard before. The guy is a RIOT. Freakin’ brilliant. If he’s got any DVDs out there, I’m gonna pick one up.
Well, he’s wanted Peter free to date. “free wheeling bachelor” was my embellishment. However, Peter’s love life when he was single was still busier when he was the hard luck case than plenty of the readers who “can’t relate to him married”.
Basically, he wants to go back to the formula of a youthful, down-on-his-luck Spidey. That’s the version of Spider-Man that existed when ASM’s sales were at their peak
Funny, I thought ASM’s peak was sometime during the Macfarlane run (~298-320ish), which was not only post-marriage, but was when the art-style for MJ was glammed up.
Thom Wade: “Well, he’s wanted Peter free to date.”
I believe your “embellishment” may be the result of an unwarranted inference. Back when Peter was “free to date” the first time around, his love life was a mess. Gwen died, MJ jilted him, the Black Cat drained him personally and financially… so being “free to date” isn’t inconsistent with the hard-luck Parker. If that’s the model Joe Q wants to get back to — and some of his remarks would suggest that is the case — I don’t think we’ll be seeing Parker-as-stud.
Lis Riba: “Funny, I thought ASM’s peak was sometime during the Macfarlane [sic] run (~298-320ish), which was not only post-marriage, but was when the art-style for MJ was glammed up.”
Admittedly, I wasn’t looking at sales figures when I made my remark about ASM at its peak. If you are correct, however, weren’t the McFarlane issues being inflated by the speculator bubble? If so, sales may have been higher, but not actual readership.
I find this discussion odd, because it seems to me that I’ve stepped on some toes by suggesting that the most recent creative direction for Spider-Man was motivated by something other than a desire to publish male-sexual-wish-fulfillment stories. I don’t think that’s the case. I think it’s a case of the old “this-is-how-the-character-used-to-be-so-that’s-how-the-character-should-always-be” syndrome.
I’m actually more disappointed that they’ll be undoing the “unmasked” storyline. As problematic as the set-up was for me, I liked the implications and felt some good stories came out of it.
Someone told me MJ was going to be ret-conned into a superheroine. I hope this isn’t so.