Comments on: Would I Lie To You… http://thomwade.wordpress.com/2007/02/28/would-i-lie-to-you/ "I see myself as a creative explosion ready to be unleashed" Wed, 23 Jul 2008 19:24:29 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=MU By: imparare http://thomwade.wordpress.com/2007/02/28/would-i-lie-to-you/#comment-2067 imparare Sun, 15 Apr 2007 06:12:04 +0000 http://thomwade.wordpress.com/2007/02/28/would-i-lie-to-you/#comment-2067 Interesting comments.. :D Interesting comments.. :D

]]> By: Read She-Hulk Free » Comics Worth Reading http://thomwade.wordpress.com/2007/02/28/would-i-lie-to-you/#comment-429 Read She-Hulk Free » Comics Worth Reading Sat, 03 Mar 2007 00:39:33 +0000 http://thomwade.wordpress.com/2007/02/28/would-i-lie-to-you/#comment-429 [...] of a recent cross-blog discussion on a topic I don’t want to get into right now. In this comment thread, She-Hulk writer Dan Slott mentions that you can read four issues of the comic online for [...] [...] of a recent cross-blog discussion on a topic I don’t want to get into right now. In this comment thread, She-Hulk writer Dan Slott mentions that you can read four issues of the comic online for [...]

]]> By: lowland_rider http://thomwade.wordpress.com/2007/02/28/would-i-lie-to-you/#comment-422 lowland_rider Fri, 02 Mar 2007 00:22:03 +0000 http://thomwade.wordpress.com/2007/02/28/would-i-lie-to-you/#comment-422 If I may -- while we're all being troubled by something or other -- I'd just like to point to what's troubled me as I've read the conversation here and at the Written World blog: The idea that it's all okay because Starfox has "neutered" himself. Now obviously this is kind of a metaphorical neutering, not a literal moment wherein Starfox smiles sheepishly -- straight razor in one hand, bloody amputated nutsack in the other -- and says, "Is it all better now?"...but still. There is, to my mind, something enormously disturbing about equating "making it up to them (i.e., women)" with "cutting off one's johnson." I find this unsettling, and no less so because the character's fuzzy accountability for his actions makes this sound like a kind of martyrdom. Mind you, this is all based on what Dan's said here and elsewhere, NOT a reading of the book, which I...well...haven't read. (I <i>did</i> read Arkham Asylum: Living Hell, though, which I enjoyed a great deal.) I probably will read it now, because all this has got me that curious, but I don't think reading it is relevant to what bothers me here, which is Dan's own interpretation of his own story. If I may — while we’re all being troubled by something or other — I’d just like to point to what’s troubled me as I’ve read the conversation here and at the Written World blog: The idea that it’s all okay because Starfox has “neutered” himself. Now obviously this is kind of a metaphorical neutering, not a literal moment wherein Starfox smiles sheepishly — straight razor in one hand, bloody amputated nutsack in the other — and says, “Is it all better now?”…but still. There is, to my mind, something enormously disturbing about equating “making it up to them (i.e., women)” with “cutting off one’s johnson.” I find this unsettling, and no less so because the character’s fuzzy accountability for his actions makes this sound like a kind of martyrdom.

Mind you, this is all based on what Dan’s said here and elsewhere, NOT a reading of the book, which I…well…haven’t read. (I did read Arkham Asylum: Living Hell, though, which I enjoyed a great deal.) I probably will read it now, because all this has got me that curious, but I don’t think reading it is relevant to what bothers me here, which is Dan’s own interpretation of his own story.

]]> By: Michelle http://thomwade.wordpress.com/2007/02/28/would-i-lie-to-you/#comment-421 Michelle Fri, 02 Mar 2007 00:13:31 +0000 http://thomwade.wordpress.com/2007/02/28/would-i-lie-to-you/#comment-421 "The god-damnedest part, for me, is that it creates a situation in which people have been raped, but no one is actually responsible for it (as a rape):" I felt precisely the same way about the resolution to the first season of Veronica Mars. The (male) writer managed to work in a sensationalistic rape with no real rapist in sight. Everyone was to blame, and no one was. How convenient! To summarize the *very* convoluted plot, Veronica was drugged and someone had sex with her. Much later she learned was her own, also drugged boyfriend. Once she found that out, the sex suddenly became consensual, not rape at all! Yeah. Right. It doesn't work that way. I was nauseous. Once again we got to voyeuristically experience the woman's pain while the male perpetrator remains invisible. Of course it took a ridiculously convoluted and utterly implausible story to pull off, but the resulting message was the same: women can be raped without anyone being to blame for it. To add insult to injury, another *girl* gets an innordinate share of the blame for Veronica's "accidental, not really rape-rape" because she (unwittingly) gave her the drug-laced drink that was intended for *her* from her own skeezy boyfriend. In future episodes Veronica makes a point of hatin' on this girl as she is the only one responsible for her (not)rape. Yet she treats the skeezy boyfriend of said girl *no worse* than she did before the incident. (The big difference between She-Hulk and VM is in the writer's intentions, obviously. The VM writer made clear two seasons later just how much he hates women, or rather *feminists*, with a far more damaging rape storyline that made me chuck the show for good.) “The god-damnedest part, for me, is that it creates a situation in which people have been raped, but no one is actually responsible for it (as a rape):”

I felt precisely the same way about the resolution to the first season of Veronica Mars. The (male) writer managed to work in a sensationalistic rape with no real rapist in sight. Everyone was to blame, and no one was. How convenient! To summarize the *very* convoluted plot, Veronica was drugged and someone had sex with her. Much later she learned was her own, also drugged boyfriend. Once she found that out, the sex suddenly became consensual, not rape at all! Yeah. Right. It doesn’t work that way. I was nauseous. Once again we got to voyeuristically experience the woman’s pain while the male perpetrator remains invisible. Of course it took a ridiculously convoluted and utterly implausible story to pull off, but the resulting message was the same: women can be raped without anyone being to blame for it. To add insult to injury, another *girl* gets an innordinate share of the blame for Veronica’s “accidental, not really rape-rape” because she (unwittingly) gave her the drug-laced drink that was intended for *her* from her own skeezy boyfriend. In future episodes Veronica makes a point of hatin’ on this girl as she is the only one responsible for her (not)rape. Yet she treats the skeezy boyfriend of said girl *no worse* than she did before the incident.

(The big difference between She-Hulk and VM is in the writer’s intentions, obviously. The VM writer made clear two seasons later just how much he hates women, or rather *feminists*, with a far more damaging rape storyline that made me chuck the show for good.)

]]> By: thomwade http://thomwade.wordpress.com/2007/02/28/would-i-lie-to-you/#comment-419 thomwade Thu, 01 Mar 2007 14:54:37 +0000 http://thomwade.wordpress.com/2007/02/28/would-i-lie-to-you/#comment-419 Hey Dan, as an aside, I picked up one of the trades yesterday. So far, I am enjoying it. It was kind of funny to read the rant about waiting for the trade paperback while I was reading a trade paperback though. Hey Dan, as an aside, I picked up one of the trades yesterday. So far, I am enjoying it. It was kind of funny to read the rant about waiting for the trade paperback while I was reading a trade paperback though.

]]> By: Dan Slott http://thomwade.wordpress.com/2007/02/28/would-i-lie-to-you/#comment-418 Dan Slott Thu, 01 Mar 2007 13:12:03 +0000 http://thomwade.wordpress.com/2007/02/28/would-i-lie-to-you/#comment-418 Derek, Even though Starfox was acting in a kind of altered state, he is still responsible for what happened. There were atrocities that were committed, victims, and a price that Starfox will have to pay. And I think it's fair to label She-Hulk as a light-toned near-comedy book. Throughout our 28 issues we've told a lot of stories that won't fit into that mold-- Vol.1 #8 featured the near Dickensian story of who Titania is and how she got that way-- a story about a lifetime of disappointment and rejection. Vol.2 #4 featured a story about Jen returning to a town that She-Hulk destroyed-- wondering if she could ever find redemption for this act. And, by the story's end, she meets one of the most tortured Marvel Universe. Vol.1 #2, Vol.2 #3, and Vol.2 #14 featured stories where at a key moment the lead character seriously contemplates a form of suicide. And while Vol.2 #6 and #7 were DEFINITELY our most serious issues to date-- telling that story was taking a risk. It's easy to stay in shallow waters, to do what's expected, and to keep producing the same kinds of stories over and over again. I hope the readership of SHE-HULK realizes that the creative team is going to keep trying new things and finding new was to tell stories-- stories about all kinds of subject matter. Derek,
Even though Starfox was acting in a kind of altered state, he is still responsible for what happened. There were atrocities that were committed, victims, and a price that Starfox will have to pay.
And I think it’s fair to label She-Hulk as a light-toned near-comedy book. Throughout our 28 issues we’ve told a lot of stories that won’t fit into that mold– Vol.1 #8 featured the near Dickensian story of who Titania is and how she got that way– a story about a lifetime of disappointment and rejection. Vol.2 #4 featured a story about Jen returning to a town that She-Hulk destroyed– wondering if she could ever find redemption for this act. And, by the story’s end, she meets one of the most tortured Marvel Universe. Vol.1 #2, Vol.2 #3, and Vol.2 #14 featured stories where at a key moment the lead character seriously contemplates a form of suicide.

And while Vol.2 #6 and #7 were DEFINITELY our most serious issues to date– telling that story was taking a risk. It’s easy to stay in shallow waters, to do what’s expected, and to keep producing the same kinds of stories over and over again. I hope the readership of SHE-HULK realizes that the creative team is going to keep trying new things and finding new was to tell stories– stories about all kinds of subject matter.

]]> By: Derek B. Haas http://thomwade.wordpress.com/2007/02/28/would-i-lie-to-you/#comment-415 Derek B. Haas Thu, 01 Mar 2007 05:24:26 +0000 http://thomwade.wordpress.com/2007/02/28/would-i-lie-to-you/#comment-415 I tried posting this several times at Ragnell's, but Haloscan is being all kinds of bullshit: The god-damnedest part, for me, is that it creates a situation in which people have been raped, but no one is actually responsible for it (as a rape): obviously not the victims; not Starfox, since he was damaged and not in control of himself; and not Thanos, the damager, because the power-abuse effect was an incidental side effect of his goal. So now there are several rapes with no actual rapist, just a confluence of accidental circumstances. I'm not sure I can articulate why right now, but this is unbelievably troubling to me. I actually feel disgust at the narrative twisting done to create this circumstance--in a light-toned near-comedy book, no less! It's just plainly unbelievably bad. I tried posting this several times at Ragnell’s, but Haloscan is being all kinds of bullshit:

The god-damnedest part, for me, is that it creates a situation in which people have been raped, but no one is actually responsible for it (as a rape): obviously not the victims; not Starfox, since he was damaged and not in control of himself; and not Thanos, the damager, because the power-abuse effect was an incidental side effect of his goal.

So now there are several rapes with no actual rapist, just a confluence of accidental circumstances. I’m not sure I can articulate why right now, but this is unbelievably troubling to me. I actually feel disgust at the narrative twisting done to create this circumstance–in a light-toned near-comedy book, no less! It’s just plainly unbelievably bad.

]]> By: thomwade http://thomwade.wordpress.com/2007/02/28/would-i-lie-to-you/#comment-414 thomwade Wed, 28 Feb 2007 15:20:47 +0000 http://thomwade.wordpress.com/2007/02/28/would-i-lie-to-you/#comment-414 Thanks! I will check those out. Thanks! I will check those out.

]]> By: Dan Slott http://thomwade.wordpress.com/2007/02/28/would-i-lie-to-you/#comment-413 Dan Slott Wed, 28 Feb 2007 14:51:18 +0000 http://thomwade.wordpress.com/2007/02/28/would-i-lie-to-you/#comment-413 Never read an issue of SHE-HULK? Well... Four issues of the book are available online for free: SHE-HULK #1: www.marvel.com/digitalcomics SHE-HULK #5: www.milehighcomics.com/firstlook/marvel/shehulk5/ SHE-HULK #8: http://www.marvel.com/dotcomics/SHEHUL008/ SHE-HULK Vol.2 #1: www.marvel.com/digitalcomics Never read an issue of SHE-HULK? Well…
Four issues of the book are available online for free:

SHE-HULK #1: http://www.marvel.com/digitalcomics
SHE-HULK #5: http://www.milehighcomics.com/firstlook/marvel/shehulk5/
SHE-HULK #8: http://www.marvel.com/dotcomics/SHEHUL008/
SHE-HULK Vol.2 #1: http://www.marvel.com/digitalcomics

]]> By: thomwade http://thomwade.wordpress.com/2007/02/28/would-i-lie-to-you/#comment-412 thomwade Wed, 28 Feb 2007 14:36:13 +0000 http://thomwade.wordpress.com/2007/02/28/would-i-lie-to-you/#comment-412 Hey there, Dan. Thanks for stopping by. I have to admit, personally, I have not read She-Hulk (it's one of those books that I keep thinking, "Gee, I should check that out", but as with so many other books, I seem to fail to get around to actually picking up). So, I was limited to the various interpretations that others had. Again, I appreciate your stopping by and giving your perspective on the storyline in question. Hey there, Dan.

Thanks for stopping by. I have to admit, personally, I have not read She-Hulk (it’s one of those books that I keep thinking, “Gee, I should check that out”, but as with so many other books, I seem to fail to get around to actually picking up). So, I was limited to the various interpretations that others had. Again, I appreciate your stopping by and giving your perspective on the storyline in question.

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